RE: Alonso - Hamilton i čekanje u boxu

Mladen Jergović odgovara na vaša pitanja...
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Buxer
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Pridružen/a: 26 kol 2006, 18:24
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p@rtibrejker je napisao/la:
RAF1 je napisao/la:Jako je čudna "taktika" McLarena u Q3, kao što ste i sami naveli.
Idemo još jednom nabaciti činjenice: Alonsa su u predzadnjem zaustavljanju u boxu zadržali punih 47 sekundi, od 7,40 do 6,53, za to vrijeme Ham troši gorivo. Tada se zapetljala ona uzica grijača i to ga je koštalo dodatnih 8 sekundi. Nakon toga je odvozio izlazni krug, brzi krug i vratio se u box. U 2,08 je spreman za povratak, međutim, zadržavaju ga, prolazi 19 sekundi. U 1,51 dolazi Ham i staje iza Alonsa. U 1,47 podiže se lolly-pop, međutim, Alono ne kreće. U 1,38 Alonso se vraća na stazu. U 1,26 Ham kreće iz boxa u finalni krug.

Alonso je započeo brzi krug samo tri sekunde prije kraja Q3 i trebao mu je 1,35 da nakon izlaska iz boxa krene u brzi krug.
Dakle, da je Alonso krenuo kad se lolly-pop podigao Ham bi imao 1,35 da se vrati u brzi krug.
Dakle, ovih 9 sekundi zadržavanja je vrlo bitno. E sada, zašto su Alonsa držali dodatnih 19 sekundi, zašto su ga u prethodnom zaustavljanju zadržavali 47 sekundi i dozvolili da se vozači približe jedan drugome.

Alonso je izjavio da je krenuo kada mu je rečeno i ovo ima smisla.
U protivnom bi značilo da je Alonso najpametniji vozač na svijetu koji je sve to sam izračunao i uspio namjestiti. S druge strane velika ljutnja RonRona (konačno neke emocije od toga lika) znači da je pametovanje McLaren došlo glave, što im je slikovito dizanjem prsta poručio Alonso.
Alonso može biti jako ljut prije sutrašnje utrke jer je izgubio 55 sekundi u drugom zaustavljanju i 19 u zadnjem zaustavljanju što znači 1,23 ili cijeli krug koji ga može koštati na sutrašnjoj utrci. Ako mu McLaren uopće dozvoli da pobijedi.
A naravno, čekamo i odluku FIA-e. Hm, sjećam se lanjskih odluka i nisam baš optimistična. Vrlo ružne igre ove godine. Imamo CAR WARS i to interni i eksterni.
Evo zanimljivog posta. Taktička pogreška McLarena? Hm, ne bi bila prva...
Nije li ovo vrlo sličan post?

Quote:
Did McLaren screw up?

Or was it an incredibly sophisticated and deliberate attempt by Alonso to block a faster teammate from defending his provisional Pole position ?
...
In Q3 of qualifying, McLaren seemed intent on putting Hamilton on Pole by having Alonso qualify on the ‘prime’ – soft – tire while Hamilton was turning his hot laps on the ‘option’ – super soft – tire with nearly three tenths in hand.

It should have been an easy Pole for Hamilton, but it didn’t happen.

Immediately following the demise of the team’s planned orchestration of the front row, Ron Dennis slammed his headphones down, and stormed off to Parc Ferme to confront his Spanish driver. When challenged, Alonso refused to listen, and walked away from his McLaren Boss who continued to sputter at him.

But Dennis’ scapegoat wasn’t the real problem today. The facts don’t back him up.

Though onlookers were quick to trash Alonso, and ridicule him for deliberately holding up Hamilton…. The facts don’t back them up.

One has to look at the specific timelines to declare guilt.

...

The truth is that Alonso was not going to be given a chance to start the Hungarian Grand Prix from Pole.

It can also be said that McLaren cost Alonso a lap of fuel. Was that intentional ? Was that what the team wanted to insure a Hamilton victory for tomorrow’s race ?

Let’s consider these questions while we look at the facts.

On Alonso’s second to last pitstop in the Q3 qualifying session, McLaren held Alonso for a full 47 seconds (From 7:40 to 6:53). (NOTE by Ciro: I was astounded by THAT) Apparently to allow for traffic to clear, meanwhile Hamilton was allowed to burn fuel during the time that the Spaniard sat idle.

The team then bungled his release when a tire warmer became stuck on the suspension. The mistake cost Alonso another full eight seconds.

Alonso completed his out lap, his hot lap and then returned to the pits. The car was jacked up, and Alonso’s tread was replaced for his final run at Pole. At the 2:08 mark, Alonso was dropped off the jacks and ready to return to the track. But the team held him again…

This time for another 19 critical seconds…

Again apparently for clear track. (NOTE by Ciro: I was amazed by that)

At the 1:51 mark, Hamilton arrived in full view behind Alonso.

At the 1:47 mark, the McLaren mechanic lifts the lolli-pop. Usually a sign that the team wants the driver to leave the pit stall.

What isn’t clear is if Alonso is actually released by the team. Unlike the previous stop, the mechanic in charge of releasing him can’t be seen counting down the release.

During this crucial nine seconds, some speculate that Alonso deliberately held his teammate to cost him Hamilton his run at Pole.

At the 1:38 second mark, Alonso drives away and finds clear track.

At the 1:26 second mark, Hamilton’s service is complete, and he is away for his doomed final lap.

But here is the key point to this presentation of the facts. And Ron Dennis should note this before he scolds his star driver because his favorite son isn’t on Pole.

Alonso began his lap with just three seconds left in the qualifying session. It took him 1:35 to get around the track from the time he left his pit stall.


Even if Alonso had gotten away when the loli-pop went up, Hamilton would have had just 1:35 to get around the track.

While the nine seconds was crucial… It was the McLaren team who kept Alonso for the extra 19 seconds before hand to create the situation. It was the McLaren team who kept Alonso a full 47 seconds the previous pitstop and allowed their drivers to get so close to each other.

The truth is one of the following:

McLaren were too smart by half

Or Alonso is the smartest driver in the world, and had this all calculated out in the cockpit of his car.

Alonso said of the incident, "I leave the pits when I'm told to."

And that makes the most sense.

If Ron Dennis is angry and upset, he only has his own team to whine at for wasting the precious seconds that left Hamilton second. If Ron Dennis is angry and upset, it clearly wasn’t his driver who created the situation.

If Ron Dennis is angry and upset that McLaren’s intended orchestration of the front row didn’t happen as planned, he only has one place to point the finger…

At his team. Not his driver.

Even so, the one who ought to be furious is Fernando Alonso.

While Alonso will start from Pole on a track where it is extremely difficult to make a pass, the team cost him a full lap of fuel by forcing him to sit idle in his pit stall. (NOTE by Ciro: my exact toughts)

They wasted 55 seconds on the second to last stop, plus 19 seconds on his final stop, plus the nine questionable seconds. That works out to 1:23 or one full lap.

Tomorrow, that lost lap could be very costly for Alonso. That is..

If McLaren allows him to win. Because if he does, he’ll overtake the team’s favored one in the Formula one points standings.

Will Ron Dennis allow that to happen ?

Iskreno, nije mi se dalo čitati sve postove do kraja pa sam samo uletio sa ovim ;) Ima još jedno pitanje na forumu sa kojeg sam ovo skinuo a to je slijedeće :

"Qualifying investigations like this should only be instigated if a team/driver starts the process."
I don't know driving in another way which isn't risky. Each one has to improve himself. Each driver has its limit. My limit is a little bit further than other's." - Ayrton Senna, January, 1989

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Blesava_ KoKoš^
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Pridružen/a: 06 kol 2007, 13:53

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Pa stvarno mi nije jasno....pa otkud tom balavcu Hamiltonu pravo da tako dobro vozi??????
Otkud mu pravo da tako gazi dvostrukog prvaka Alonsa?????
Otkud mu pravo da No1 kolegu iz momčadi pretvori u frustriranog i ratobornog vodonošu,u jednog nebitnog i sporednog lika sklonog skandalima????U lika kojeg bi se Mclaren najradije riješio pod svaku cijenu??? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Fakat....nije mi jasno zašto svi,počevši od MCMa pa do FIAe,medija i navijača favoriziraju Hamiltona kada on to uopće nije zaslužio..... slučajno je do sada bio 10 puta na postolju i slučajno je par puta pobjedio. :?
Ovo zvuči pomalo čudno,jel da??

Ljudi božji,shvatite već jednom:"Alonso je poražen,pregažen ili kako već hoćete! Čovjek je izgubio tlo pod nogama,izgubio je kontrolu nad sobom i zato mu se dešavaju tako glupe stvari kao na mađarskim kvalifikacijama!
Svaki daljnji komentari su po meni suvišni.Svi vi koji navijate za Alonsa morate shvatiti da čovjek nije više No1 i da smo dobili novog prvaka!!!! :rock: :peace:
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Pridružen/a: 26 kol 2006, 18:24
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Blesava_ KoKoš^ je napisao/la:Pa stvarno mi nije jasno....pa otkud tom balavcu Hamiltonu pravo da tako dobro vozi??????
Otkud mu pravo da tako gazi dvostrukog prvaka Alonsa?????
Otkud mu pravo da No1 kolegu iz momčadi pretvori u frustriranog i ratobornog vodonošu,u jednog nebitnog i sporednog lika sklonog skandalima????U lika kojeg bi se Mclaren najradije riješio pod svaku cijenu??? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Fakat....nije mi jasno zašto svi,počevši od MCMa pa do FIAe,medija i navijača favoriziraju Hamiltona kada on to uopće nije zaslužio..... slučajno je do sada bio 10 puta na postolju i slučajno je par puta pobjedio. :?
Ovo zvuči pomalo čudno,jel da??

Ljudi božji,shvatite već jednom:"Alonso je poražen,pregažen ili kako već hoćete! Čovjek je izgubio tlo pod nogama,izgubio je kontrolu nad sobom i zato mu se dešavaju tako glupe stvari kao na mađarskim kvalifikacijama!
Svaki daljnji komentari su po meni suvišni.Svi vi koji navijate za Alonsa morate shvatiti da čovjek nije više No1 i da smo dobili novog prvaka!!!! :rock: :peace:
Pa i Šumi je imao statistiku i sve jedno mi nije bio drag ;) Meni ova situacija savršeno odgovara i volio bi vidjeti otvoreni fajt. Uostalom, ni Prost mi nije bio drag a vozio je za McLaren. Neka se oni samo šoraju i neka grizu do koske, mene jedino smeta što se svašta piše po novinama.

Ako slijedim tvoju logiku onda je Kimi mrtav kad je već Alonso pregažen.Ima puno još do kraja sezone, dolaze neke zanimljive staze a zaostaci su jako mali, vidjet ćemo kako će to završiti.

Onaj nick ti je bio bolji, puno bolji.
I don't know driving in another way which isn't risky. Each one has to improve himself. Each driver has its limit. My limit is a little bit further than other's." - Ayrton Senna, January, 1989

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p@rtibrejker
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Blesava_ KoKoš^ je napisao/la:Pa stvarno mi nije jasno....pa otkud tom balavcu Hamiltonu pravo da tako dobro vozi??????
Otkud mu pravo da tako gazi dvostrukog prvaka Alonsa?????
Otkud mu pravo da No1 kolegu iz momčadi pretvori u frustriranog i ratobornog vodonošu,u jednog nebitnog i sporednog lika sklonog skandalima????U lika kojeg bi se Mclaren najradije riješio pod svaku cijenu??? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Fakat....nije mi jasno zašto svi,počevši od MCMa pa do FIAe,medija i navijača favoriziraju Hamiltona kada on to uopće nije zaslužio..... slučajno je do sada bio 10 puta na postolju i slučajno je par puta pobjedio. :?
Ovo zvuči pomalo čudno,jel da??

Ljudi božji,shvatite već jednom:"Alonso je poražen,pregažen ili kako već hoćete! Čovjek je izgubio tlo pod nogama,izgubio je kontrolu nad sobom i zato mu se dešavaju tako glupe stvari kao na mađarskim kvalifikacijama!
Svaki daljnji komentari su po meni suvišni.Svi vi koji navijate za Alonsa morate shvatiti da čovjek nije više No1 i da smo dobili novog prvaka!!!! :rock: :peace:
Smiješno. Opet se povlači priča o tome kako je Alonso pregažen, izgubio prvenstvo, itd, itd, itd. Ali sad kad si ti to rekao, nekako mi ipak naginje na to da će Alonso i ovu sezonu završiti prvi... Ring a bell?

BTW, ne vidim da sa novim nickom otvaraš novu temu "Lajavi Hamilton"? Zar komentatorimaa poput tebe nisu dovoljne barem glasine da je psovao svog mentora i vođu ekipe da bi ga sasuo uvredama? Ah da, nije to Alonso, a i Lewis dobro vozi za razliku od potonjeg, a i nema Schumija da mu uzme prvenstvo :roll:

Nerealnost i dvostruka mjerila, ima ih ko u priči...
- Oviedon Ihmisohjus -
...who are you to wave your finger?...
ignore lista: MP4don - 07.04.09. ivanpetka - 29.07.09. mmilo42 - 02.10.09. Butt-kisser 23.10.09. Felipe Massa 01.08.10.
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My argument, which many will hate, is that Hamilton and Alonso both went behind their team to get an advantage over the other, the only difference being that Hamilton chose a "legit" way to do it. Which is balls really, given that everyone is making him a saint for being an "individual" and a "free-spirit". Really it's just because he's British, otherwise we'd be celebrating Alonso's "individuality". Extreme patriotism just irks me.
- Oviedon Ihmisohjus -
...who are you to wave your finger?...
ignore lista: MP4don - 07.04.09. ivanpetka - 29.07.09. mmilo42 - 02.10.09. Butt-kisser 23.10.09. Felipe Massa 01.08.10.
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Blesava_ KoKoš^
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Pridružen/a: 06 kol 2007, 13:53

Post Postao/la Blesava_ KoKoš^ »

Ma nije mi jasna samo jedna stvar......dobro,ajde,mogu razumijeti da ste MRZILI Šumahera,jer čovjek je fakat bil čudak svoje vrste(iako je bio genijalac)..ali kaj vam je Hamilton skrivio????? :? :shock:
To fakat nikako nemrem shvatiti??
Komentari tipa "ljigav je","proračunat je","podmukli je","crn je :lol: "....izazvani su samo zato jer je trenutno bolji od Alonsa?????? :shock:
Pa dečko samo vozi svoje utrke i odrađuje svoj posao.....a stekao je već tolko neprijatelja(na ovom forumu) kolko ih ni Mr.Crno Visočanstvo Šumi nije skupil! :lol:
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